tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25640206.post195653662634793417..comments2023-05-30T02:34:51.780-05:00Comments on FullyPersuadedBaptist: The Origin Of FreedomJames McEntirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18076786630641849452noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25640206.post-63219122231396930082007-07-12T15:10:00.000-05:002007-07-12T15:10:00.000-05:00I think that because governments involve fallen ma...<I>I think that because governments involve fallen man there will never be a perfect government until the Lord Jesus Christ comes</I><BR/><BR/>I completely agree. God will use those governments to His own ends, to be sure, and though they most often originate because of the sin of men, those governments will still not be able to frustrate the purposes of God.<BR/><BR/>But I hope to never be found working against Him. :)<BR/><BR/><I>There will be perpetual danger of men seeking power and in the process violating the liberties of others.</I><BR/><BR/>Unless a government limits itself to only powers delegated to it by the just consent of its governed, then it will always by definition be violating the liberties of others. :( It would be one thing if you and I banded together and pooled our resources to establish an institution that protected our rights, as the Declaration of Independence talks about. It is quite another thing when we claim to possess the right to submit everybody within our geographic region to accept <I>our</I> rights-defending institution rather than exercising their own right to self-defense and founding their own, or only joining ours if it is their own free choice. It is one thing if our rights-defending institution requires agreed-upon fees of its voluntary members to fund itself; it is another thing if it compels everybody to be a member and charges all of them, so that there can be no competition in this "industry." (And the other thing that it is in such a case is really not so different than other institutions that insist on being paid money in order to protect people who don't get to choose whether they want the "protection" or not, and make people "offers they can't refuse.")<BR/><BR/>You might really get a lot out of David Lipscomb's book <A HREF="http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/dlipscomb/civgov.html" REL="nofollow"> CIVIL GOVERNMENT. Its Origin, Mission, and Destiny, - AND THE - Christian's Relation To It</A> from the 1800's. That link takes you to a page where you can read it for free; it's also possible to buy a reprint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25640206.post-29106292836144232802007-07-03T18:22:00.000-05:002007-07-03T18:22:00.000-05:00jdavidb,Glad you enjoyed the post and I hope it wa...jdavidb,<BR/><BR/>Glad you enjoyed the post and I hope it was thought-provoking.<BR/><BR/>The right to secede. It seems that the right to secede is one that always precipitates war. There is usually one group claiming the right and another group (usually the one with the most power) denying the right.<BR/><BR/>It has always been an interesting conflict that the colonies beleived they had the right to declare their Independence and then about 90 years later denied that same right to others. Of course the key is that in both wars that were precipitated by a group seeking to disolve the political band which had united them the United State won both. The first to secure their right to secede and the second to deny that right to the Southern states.<BR/><BR/>Winston Churchill has an interesting story in the middle of his book, The Great Republic, that fabricates a history of what happened when Lee won at Gettysburg. It is interesting reading although completely fiction.<BR/><BR/>I think that because governments involve fallen man there will never be a perfect government until the Lord Jesus Christ comes and reigns with a rod of iron. There will be perpetual danger of men seeking power and in the process violating the liberties of others.<BR/><BR/>I find this whole area of political/government philosophy to be a fascinating topic.James McEntirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076786630641849452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25640206.post-922104891760854752007-07-03T12:54:00.000-05:002007-07-03T12:54:00.000-05:00Oh, and you will have also established the right o...Oh, and you will have also established the right of free people to secede.<BR/><BR/>Tomorrow, of course, we celebrate the fact that 231 years ago free people fought and won their right to secede. Unfortunately in this day and age we celebrate that people do not have this right. And we bundle those two conflicting ideas together in the same system of values.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25640206.post-74854253911892419502007-07-03T12:52:00.000-05:002007-07-03T12:52:00.000-05:00Some excellent thoughts, and we are so close in ou...Some excellent thoughts, and we are so close in our understanding. And you gave me some new ways to word things that I am probably going to reuse. :)<BR/><BR/><I>If freedom originates with God it cannot be granted by the State.</I><BR/><BR/>It can't even be denied by those who don't believe in God. They will continue to possess their freedoms. Indeed, all freedom seems to derive from the irrefutable axiom of self-ownership, which is obvious to all, even atheists, but was originally granted by God.<BR/><BR/><I>The State mainly exists as a means for the collective free people to fairly deprive individuals of their freedom who seek to infringe upon the freedoms of others.</I><BR/><BR/>If you will postulate a world where any group of free people could band together and create such institutions, and any number of such institutions coexist without taking away the rights of free people to choose or form a different, competing institution (in short, where the institutions don't claim a <I>monopoly</I> on providing this service of security of rights), you and I will wind up thinking completely alike. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25640206.post-69581112176027532842007-07-02T21:19:00.000-05:002007-07-02T21:19:00.000-05:00Great message. Dad and momGreat message. Dad and momTO BECOMEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01358989235076877037noreply@blogger.com